Comments on: Vista morning ponderings http://brian.pontarelli.com/2007/02/23/vista-morning-ponderings/ Brian Pontarelli Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:43:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Brian Pontarelli http://brian.pontarelli.com/2007/02/23/vista-morning-ponderings/#comment-3179 Brian Pontarelli Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:02:13 +0000 http://brian.pontarelli.com/2007/02/23/vista-morning-ponderings/#comment-3179 The networking in X has severe implications for 3D rendering because what you are doing is rendering a scene on the 3D card of the XServer and then piping a bitmap across the wire. This is really just a waste of resources. The idea behind Beryl/Compiz is that there is direct communication with the GL driver that talks directly to the card. There are two ways of accomplishing this, Xgl and AIGLX. Xgl is a complete XServer that allows applications to access the graphics card directly bypassing most of the Xlib stack, including the network. AIGLX is similar but is part of Xorg and allows applications to access the graphics by going through a thin layer of Xlib code. This too eliminates the network. The reason the network just doesn't make sense in these situations is that the graphics card should spit out directly to the monitor. GPUs and modern GL graphics cards have enormous power and piping that back into main memory and then across a network essentially makes these graphics cards no better then VESA. Eventually we'll see either AIGLX or Xgl win, but the truth is that the network will never be touched in the modern Xwindows systems, making them more like a direct FB or GL device and almost nothing like an XServer. This is the only way to correctly take Linux graphics to the next logically evolutionary step. The networking in X has severe implications for 3D rendering because what you are doing is rendering a scene on the 3D card of the XServer and then piping a bitmap across the wire. This is really just a waste of resources. The idea behind Beryl/Compiz is that there is direct communication with the GL driver that talks directly to the card. There are two ways of accomplishing this, Xgl and AIGLX. Xgl is a complete XServer that allows applications to access the graphics card directly bypassing most of the Xlib stack, including the network. AIGLX is similar but is part of Xorg and allows applications to access the graphics by going through a thin layer of Xlib code. This too eliminates the network. The reason the network just doesn’t make sense in these situations is that the graphics card should spit out directly to the monitor. GPUs and modern GL graphics cards have enormous power and piping that back into main memory and then across a network essentially makes these graphics cards no better then VESA. Eventually we’ll see either AIGLX or Xgl win, but the truth is that the network will never be touched in the modern Xwindows systems, making them more like a direct FB or GL device and almost nothing like an XServer. This is the only way to correctly take Linux graphics to the next logically evolutionary step.

]]> By: Keegan http://brian.pontarelli.com/2007/02/23/vista-morning-ponderings/#comment-3178 Keegan Mon, 05 Mar 2007 00:46:23 +0000 http://brian.pontarelli.com/2007/02/23/vista-morning-ponderings/#comment-3178 Not sure I understand your comment about X; yes, it has networking capabilities, but it doesn't really add any noticable overhead whatsoever; think of those sockets connected to your own computer as just another form of interprocess communication.... Besides, the idea of Compiz/Beryl is that it builds on top of X and acts as a drop-in replacement for current WMs; you can't do that if you get rid of X support. Not sure I understand your comment about X; yes, it has networking capabilities, but it doesn’t really add any noticable overhead whatsoever; think of those sockets connected to your own computer as just another form of interprocess communication….

Besides, the idea of Compiz/Beryl is that it builds on top of X and acts as a drop-in replacement for current WMs; you can’t do that if you get rid of X support.

]]> By: Dan Moore http://brian.pontarelli.com/2007/02/23/vista-morning-ponderings/#comment-3154 Dan Moore Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:16:57 +0000 http://brian.pontarelli.com/2007/02/23/vista-morning-ponderings/#comment-3154 I simply can't believe that Vista doesn't support cygwin: http://nevali.wordpress.com/2007/01/28/cygwin-on-vista/ Cygwin is the first thing I install when I get a new Windows box, and I feel it makes developing on a windows box almost as nice as on a linux box. (Sure there are still linefeed issues and other inconveniences, but at least you have a valid shell.) I simply can’t believe that Vista doesn’t support cygwin: http://nevali.wordpress.com/2007/01/28/cygwin-on-vista/

Cygwin is the first thing I install when I get a new Windows box, and I feel it makes developing on a windows box almost as nice as on a linux box.

(Sure there are still linefeed issues and other inconveniences, but at least you have a valid shell.)

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